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Noontime Book Chat: Going Down South by Bonnie J. Glover
Today, Dar, Dawn, J. Kaye, Yasmin and I are discussing Going Down South
by Bonnie J. Glover here at Literarily. I have a feeling I'm (as usual!) a little behind everyone else in my reading. I'm just getting into part two, which is written from Daisy's perspective.So, for the discussion today, I'd like to throw out some general questions about teenage pregnancy, while relating them to Olivia Jean's circumstances.
To summarize what I know so far about the situation, Daisy initially wanted Olivia Jean to have an abortion. When Olivia Jean refused to consent, Daisy moved on to plan B which was to ship Olivia Jean off to a grandmother in Alabama for the remainder of her pregnancy. My understanding is that Olivia Jean will be returning to New York WITHOUT the baby, since the whole point is to hide her pregnancy from family and friends in New York.
This, in my opinion, was a much more common way of dealing with teenage pregnancy 30, 40 years ago than it is now. Whereas girls were once sent away to live with a relative or in a home for unwed mothers and eventually give their babies up for adoption, it seems more common now for the pregnant teenager to stay at home, stay in school, not hiding her pregnancy. And usually she keeps the baby.
So, I said all of that to say this, do you think this change is for the better? Or, was the way of handling unplanned teen pregnancies in the past better than how we tend to deal with it now?
And, the BIG question, if your 15 year-old daughter came home today telling you she was pregnant, what would YOU do? I know exactly what I would do, and I'll post my answer in the comments.
Here is the weekly schedule for our first-ever FIVE-way noontime book chat:
Monday: J. Kaye’s Book Blog
Tuesday: Peeking Between the Pages
Wednesday: Literarily
Thursday: She Is Too Fond of Books
Friday: APOOO Book Club
So, if you've read this wonderful book, join us to discuss it. If you haven't read it, get yourself a copy and give it a read - it's a great story.
Teenage pregnancy a huge issue. We have babies having babies and as a writer I had to walk a thin line. How do we deal with this issue? I think (via the book) my response was that we have to take each situation into account on an individual basis. Some teenagers are going to be able to handle pregnancy, baby and everything that goes with it with help. Others will not.
I don't think I prefer the old way. I was just at a conference and a lady whispered to me that just such a thing had happened to her and that she was forced to give the baby up. I think she had been crying in the audience. I could still see this haunted look in her eyes, but perhaps I project. I can't not think that having to give up a baby in h circumstances might not haunt a person.
I've read that by some estimates, over a million young women were forced to give up babies because of unplanned pregnancies, in the twenty year span fro 1940-60. Of course, it is probably a conservative estimate because people did not necessarily report the truth. Today there are still mothers looking for their children and vice-versa.
If I had a daughter today, who got pregnant at fifteen, like Olivia Jean, I would be supportive but realistic. I would listen and try to figure out what to do. I can't say for sure that "we" would have the child. No easy answers on this one.
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I certainly don't think the old way of doing things was right, but sometimes I think we've swung a little too far the other way. I met a woman for the first time and she started showing me pictures of her grandson and told me he was born out of wedlock. It was almost like she was bragging about it.
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I don't agree with the old way of doing things, but I don't agree with the new way either.
At the doctor's office this past week, I saw a young girl that was pregnant. She was there with her boyfriend. I would guess her age to be around 15. She was doing the whole "I'm cute and pregnant" thing.
Looking at her, any young girl would think it super cool to be pregnant. She was getting all the attention and she looked like she was having fun with it. I only wish young kids could see her at 3am when the baby wants to be fed.
If my 15 year old came home pregnant, which would be hard to do because I would put birth control pills in her Wheaties, I would ask her what she wants to do and then try to make the best of it. I would be there for her, but I would not be raising the child for her. That I know for sure.
I'm interested in seeing what the others say.
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In her Wheaties! LOL!
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I don't know if either way is a good solution, to be honest. I think it really depends on the situation. As Bonnie said, there are no easy answers.
One of my friends got pregnant as a teenager, and decided to raise the baby. She had some support from her family at first but basically raised the baby by herself. She didn't go to college, choosing to work instead so she could support her child. She's told me several times that she's not sure if that was the right decision. She loves her child, but feels like she didn't have the opportunity to be a child herself. She wasn't ready to be a parent at that age (I don't see how any teenager can be) and that caused some problems for her, her child, and her parents.
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What a difficult choice. I don't think either way is the right way to go about things - much less forcing girls to bear their children in shame and immediately giving them away for adoption. I don't have kids, so I don't know what I'd do in that situation, but I think I would try my best to help my daughter understand the consequences of her actions and that I would not bear them for her if such a thing were to happen.
I know a girl who accidentally got pregnant as a teenager and chose to keep and raise the baby herself. She loves her child (and the subsequent second accidental child, who was actually born "in wedlock") but I know she regrets missing out on college and having a successful and fulfilling career - she's not in any position to try for either of those things right now.
This book sounds interesting.
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I don't have children myself but as usual have an opinion-lol. I do think the new way is better only in that it must be awful for a teen to feel so ashamed and have to be hidden. At least now they can get proper care and if they want, keep their children. Do I condone it though-not at all. Children shouldn't be having children. We've seen on the news here how there have been these girls clubs of young girls specifically trying to become pregnant like it's some game. It shouldn't be glamorized because while it's very likely wonderful to have children it isn't a bed of roses as Ti commented. If I had a 15 yr old come home pregnant, I would try to be supportive and figure out what was best all around. It's a tough question and an even tougher situation.
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Shana, this is a real tough question, even as a hypothetical!
I don't agree with the "old" way. Either Daisy's original plan, to force Olivia Jean to end the pregnancy, or Plan B, to "hide" the pregnancy from people in the neighborhood ... and who are we kidding, of course they knew what was happening. Rumors start and spread like wildfire!
These days, as some of the other comments indicate, we are perhaps too blase in our reactions to teen pregnancy, as it has become more commonplace.
In a town north of me there were 17 pregnant students in a school body of 1,200. See this">http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1815845,00.html">this article from Time magazine. There were rumors that a "pregnancy pact" had been taken by the girls. The girls deny the pact, but it made international headlines for a while this summer.
So, what would I do if my 15 yr old came to me and told me she was pregnant? First, I suppose I'd have to be grateful that she came to me for help, instead of trying to solve it by herself (or runaway, or all kinds of other/worse solutions).
I don't think a 15 yr old is emotionally ready to be a mother (heck, I was just shy of 30 when my eldest was born, and I still felt overwhelmed!).
I'm going to skirt the abortion issue, because I don't want to get into that in a public forum. There are no easy answers here, but I would support whatever decision she made (and get some outside counseling as well).
I'd like to think she could be brave/strong like Juno (the movie character), and give the child up for adoption (to a "better" life than she could provide).
Hmmm, her youngest sibling is just 4, so I'll be raising kids for a while ... if she wants to raise the child I'd support her and help her to finish high school and some kind of local college. Then she'd have to figure out the daycare/housing/income shuffle and go out on her own.
No easy answers.
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Shana, this is a real tough question, even as a hypothetical!
I don't agree with the "old" way. Either Daisy's original plan, to force Olivia Jean to end the pregnancy, or Plan B, to "hide" the pregnancy from people in the neighborhood ... and who are we kidding, of course they knew what was happening. Rumors start and spread like wildfire!
These days, as some of the other comments indicate, we are perhaps too blase in our reactions to teen pregnancy, as it has become more commonplace.
In a town north of me there were 17 pregnant students in a school body of 1,200. See this">http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1815845,00.html">this article from Time magazine. There were rumors that a "pregnancy pact" had been taken by the girls. The girls deny the pact, but it made international headlines for a while this summer.
So, what would I do if my 15 yr old came to me and told me she was pregnant? First, I suppose I'd have to be grateful that she came to me for help, instead of trying to solve it by herself (or runaway, or all kinds of other/worse solutions).
I don't think a 15 yr old is emotionally ready to be a mother (heck, I was just shy of 30 when my eldest was born, and I still felt overwhelmed!).
I'm going to skirt the abortion issue, because I don't want to get into that in a public forum. There are no easy answers here, but I would support whatever decision she made (and get some outside counseling as well).
I'd like to think she could be brave/strong like Juno (the movie character), and give the child up for adoption (to a "better" life than she could provide).
Hmmm, her youngest sibling is just 4, so I'll be raising kids for a while ... if she wants to raise the child I'd support her and help her to finish high school and some kind of local college. Then she'd have to figure out the daycare/housing/income shuffle and go out on her own.
No easy answers.
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I have a fifteen year old daughter. Yesterday she said that the acne cream her dermatologist prescribed was working except at that time of the month, and said that some of her friends told her that birth control pills could help that. I told her that I'd tried some of those birth control pills (she knows I've taken bc pills since I was 18), but said that they didn't help my complexion when I was younger and it was more of a problem. We had this conversation in the car, and then when we went into the house I had a moment and said "Oh, but if you want me to take you to the doctor and get bc pills, I'll be glad to do it..." She looked at me sideways and told me that if she'd needed them because she was having sex, she'd have said so. "Kids today are more direct about these things," she told me.
That's the point at which we need to be concerned about teenage pregnancy--before the kid starts having sex. And if the kid's parents aren't willing or able to show concern by talking about sex and birth control, we need to be providing more information about it. (Look what abstinence-only education did for the Palin family).
What happens after a girl gets pregnant is kind of beside the point. It won't work to shame her, any more than it ever worked to blame the innocent baby by calling it a bastard, or making the boy marry her.
The point is that both fifteen year old girls and boys should be able to prevent pregnancy.
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Totally agree with you. Education is the only way. we do not live in the dark ages. Sex is part of life and we should be able to talk about it openly with our children. Notice, I said SHOULD!
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Like Shana, I'd love and support them throughout whatever was decided. I'd also feel I failed them in a big way.
As far as a solution, I refuse to judge here. I think our children are a product of us. If we don't like what they have done, then look in the mirror. Over and over again in the book readers can see how sins of the father...or in this case mother were passed on from mother to daughter.
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Oh, and I like the point Jeanne brought up: "...we need to be concerned about teenage pregnancy--before the kid starts having sex."
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And consider why Olivia Jean was with Claude (is that the right name? This is from memory ...). She was desperate for affection.
She historically got more love and attention, such as it was, from Turk. When he ignored her for his wife's attention, Olivia Jean was susceptible to his lines and advances.
Olivia Jean's fantasies about what Claude would be like as her child's "Daddy" were sad. I think the fantasy aspect is a universal coping mechanism for unplanned pregnancies!
Daisy hadn't even explained menstruation to her, nevermind anything else that had to do with reproduction! Remember how angry she got with the lady downstairs for helping Olivia Jean when she got her period and was so scared ... was Daisy embarrassed that she hadn't talked to Olivia Jean about it? Did she think the neighbor was judging her? (I'm getting way off the question here ....Dar did you receive the book?)
Jeanne - you make a good point. What's that expression ... closing the barn door after the horse has escaped?
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Preston.Although I do have a cousin named Claude that I was just thinking of!
No, Daisy has not done a good job of parenting. Sex was a difficult topic for my mother too. We never had that talk and I learned what I learned from kids at school.
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You have been tagged.
Visit my blog http://loris-pieces-n-bits.blogspot.com/ for prompt.
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I loved this book, and though the extenuating circumstance is Olivia Jean's pregnancy, I really felt that the relationship between the three women was the main plot of the book, and it was beautifully done.
But, okay, to the question: My fifteen year old comes home and tells me she's pregnant.
Gaaahhhh! First I'd be really be surprised as I don't have a fifteen year old, and second, I'd immediately open a bottle of wine...for me, of course.
I suppose I'd cry with her. I'd hold her, and I'd mourn for the things I didn't know about her, for the things she thought she had to keep to herself, for the ways I might have failed her, for the ways I know her life would have to change, and for the things she would never do. Did I ignore hints? Did I listen when I should have? Did I stop asking the right questions?
And then I would try to discern what she wanted, trying to filter a 15 year old's answers through my more experienced brain. And then I'd call the doctor.
What would I WISH I'd done? I would wish I had paid more attention, not just to what she said, but to what I remembered about being 15. I would hope that I could forgive the deceptions, and would recall how frightened I was of parental reprisal and lied all the time to avoid it, all the while assuring my mother of what a close bond we had and that yes, we could talk about anything. I would remind myself that teenagers have been having sex, getting pregnant, and having babies since the dawn of time, and that abstinence programs have been proven to be ineffective, and that the best thing I could do at that moment would be to give her my sympathy, empathy, and support going into a situation that she was, for whatever reason, unprepared for.
*sigh* Don't even have kids and it weighs heavy on my heart.
Beautiful book, Bonnie.
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Thank you Kristy. Looking forward to delving into your two. I don't expect to come up for air. Heard so many wonderful things and actually started CATCHING GENIUS. MATTERS OF FAITH will be right after that.
Kids are difficult. I think even more now when you want to try to teach them what is best but so often we don't even know. Perhaps it was easier in the "good old days" to be a parent. Weren't people surer of what was right and what was wrong?
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First, let me just say that you guys rock! I posted some relatively controversial questions and I was planning to say something like, 'be nice, everyone!' but forgot and you know, I didn't need to anyway. Book bloggers are awesome in their overwhelming open-mindedness and respect for varying opinions! Trust me, I've been on some message boards - ironically, they were food/cooking boards - where any discussion like this would have gotten a little nasty. THIS is one of the many reasons I love you guys!!!
Second, Bonnie - thanks for joining the discussion. I'm so glad you've been here to chat with us and give us the author's perspective.
So, I've read through all of your responses and I think, for the most part, I'm in the minority here, but if my 15 year-old came home and told me she was pregnant, I'd be online researching where she could stay for the remainder of her pregnancy, then researching adoption options, etc. Ultimately it would be her decision, but I'd be applying some MAJOR, MAJOR pressure.
Let me qualify my statement by saying that I'm thinking specifically about my oldest daughter and in her case, given her personality, goals and aspirations, this would definitely be the best solution. Now, if it was my other daughter, I'm not sure. I don't have a good feeling for what her personality will be yet. But my oldest daughter has some major wanderlust, wants to travel, do a study abroad, Peace Corps, etc. This is EXACTLY how I was as an adolescent girl. And I know for a fact that an unplanned pregnancy would make these innate longings null and void and she would probably regret the loss of opportunity for the rest of her life.
So, I guess, I would follow much of the same path that Daisy has - at this point. There have been hints that all does not go as planned, so we'll see. BUT I do think it varies from person to person, situation to situation, what is the best thing to do in the event of an unplanned pregnancy.
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Shana..you made a good point when you mentioned personality. Each kid is different, that's for sure.
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Boy this question scares me. I haven't even had the sex talk with my daughter, but I know it's coming. My parents never discussed it with me, and I'm not going to make that mistake with my daughter. I just hope and pray that once she has the information she needs, she makes the right decisions.
But if she did come to me and tell me she was pregnant, I know that I would love and support her. I guess the way we'd proceed would depend on her situation at the time, but I know I wouldn't want to send her away or have her give up the baby.
Shana, thanks for providing such a thought-provoking question.
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Loved the conversation on this Noontime Chat. My daughter is 20 now. But at 15 if this had happened I would have flipped out and then helped her do whatever I could do to support her. I have one daughter with one life and at 15 years old she would need my help tremendously and I don't believe that a mistake at 15 should haunt or destroy her life forever...Oh this was a moving discussion. Very thought provoking.
BC in the Wheaties is just hysterical. Loved it.
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